Tue 19 Dec 2006
Sumpin fer nuttin’ (the fallacy of Network Marketing/MLMs)
Posted by me under brief thoughts , essays[35] Comments
Way back in October, I promised I’d talk about MLMs. True to my word, I’ve blogged about the devil’s vomitus: Quixtar and Utah’s pride and joy: TeamBuilders. I even managed to offend some of Lennon Ledbetter’s swinish multitude. Since those fun times, I’ve come across a number of individuals (one) who insist that MLMs are legitimate enterprises. Those people (Roberto) are dreadfully wrong of course, and I’ll tell you why.
But before I launch into a carefully crafted exposition, I should note that my last blog entry generated 15 comments as of this posting. That’s a record. Given the belligerent (bellicose?) tone of some of the recent comments, a lesser man might be tempted to avoid controversial topics and blog on banal news events. Not I! Particularly not in the face of an estimated semi-regular blog readership of upwards of three people! I can’t let them all down. I will stay the course!
Ok, where was I? MLMs. Let me define an MLM for the uninitiated. MLMs involve hard-selling a consumable (exotic, foul tasting beverages, cheap lotions, Brazilian dark chocolate, etc.) through a network of your “friends.” Those people become your downline. They’ll need not only to drink, lather and eat the product, but they’ll need to be “connectors” themselves; gathering their own friends. Those friends of your friends also are part of your downline. Downlines are important because you get a percentage of what they buy. The higher up the pyramid you are, the greater downline you have and the more money you get off other people’s consumption. The goal of all MLMers is to get such a massive downline that they no longer have to work for themselves. It’s a classic get-rich-quick scheme and it’s guaranteed to take your money while losing your friends. Sign me up!
The problems with MLM are numerous. First of all — it doesn’t scale (nor is it meant to, though it is advertised that way.) Let me explain. MLMers will tell you how rich everyone is becoming, but that’s not at all true. Your only chance of becoming rich is to amass a huge downline (lots of “legs”, etc, etc.) And, in case you didn’t know, not everyone can have a huge downline (because people have to be in that downline!) Most of the research I’ve come across, for example, reports the average Quixtar monthly earnings at about $100. That would be great were the monthly Quixtar membership fees not also $100. That means an awful lot of people are wasting a lot of time, buying crappy products, all the while netting *nothing*. MLMs, like other scams, only really work if they are constantly growing. I’m reminded of a old scam wherein you send in $300 dollars for a “membership” and in three weeks you get $600 back. The idea is that if people are constantly joining up, and there is a three week delay in getting money, you can use new memberships to pay the previous people. What a great idea!
The second problem is the highly touted MLM promise of not having to do any work. “Join Quixtar/Teambuilders/Noni/Xango and in three to five years you won’t have to work ever again!” What a great idea! No work! No work! lah, lah, lah, lah, laaaah, lah! Let’s all go to France. No one works there! Look how happy and productive the French are!
Sarcasm aside, I think it highly toxic (both to the society and to the individual) to promote an entitlement complex such as “I deserve to be rich” and “I shouldn’t have to work.” In case you’ve forgotten, we need teachers, laborers, and mechanics in order for society to function. People need to work.
To be sure, MLMs reap great benefits for the “early adopters.” Utah Teambuilder’s captain, Lennon Ledbetter, bought a 7 million dollar house in cash not long ago. That’s a lot of money. However, Lennon is profiting without adding anything back to society. A fundamental tenet of capitalism is to add value and Teambuilders does not add value. MLMs rake in benefits for the elite top few all the while ravishing the underlings.
Don’t be part of MLMs! Save your friends and years of your life! Decide now to JUST SAY NO!
Hahah true true, what’s worst about this is not just a friend or in-law or even immediate family member being suckered into this. But its really bad when a religious leader does this to support their ministry or something.
However MLM’s do have their uses. For example if I had to many friends taking up my time or asking me for things. I could join a MLM to force them to take action and alienate me. thereby absolving myself from being the “mean one” that destroyed our relationship.
There is a bit of a fallacy with your argument. BUT, it’s not your fault. MLM is not inherently bad. The idea is not bad. The nature of the setup is not bad. The bad part is the mannerism of selling the ‘idea’. Let’s have an example: Let’s say I joined Quixtar. This is tantamount to me getting a ‘job’ as the area distribution manager for Coca-Cola beverages. My job is both is to sell a product and collect a profit off the difference of the wholesale price and the retail price. I will need salesmen. (The theory being more people = more sales) I would setup a commission structure for these salesmen and pay them but also get a portion of their sales. It’s just plain ole capitalism 101. When you treat and MLM like an outside commission sales job, you can be successful at it. You can even choose your hours. You can work any 16 hours out of the day you want to. But you will be working a LOT.
One of their recurring themes is the fallacy of trading hours for dollars. The ‘preach’ that they don’t do this. That is a LIE! They spend a lot of time at meetings, trainings, on the phone, and making tapes and buying books to resell. They put in well in excess of 40 hours a week. Now, after you do this for several years, and you have a downline that can be self-sustaining and you have someone in charge that you trust not to destroy your business, then you CAN have a few days off. If you neglect your downline then you will not have it very long.
MLM’s are evil
It never ceases to amaze me where I run into these things. Recently I’ve seen a lot of MLM’s selling herbal supplements or ‘guaranteed’ weight-loss treatments.
Sometime in the past year I believe someone set up an MLM inside an online game and ran away with the bank. There were a lot of angry people left at the bottom of the ladder – but since it was all in-game no one was able to do anything about it.
Actually, an MLM is not an evil thing. If you approach an MLM as exactly what it is, a high risk high investment opportunity to possibly make some money, and you work at it as you do with any job and any project, you can make a lot of money at it. If you knew a lot of people that wanted to work at something and achieve something under you, instead of falling for the “we’ll be rich in 2 days!” mentality, you could be successful, but, it takes work. Nothing worth anything can be achieve by doing nothing. I think I need to re-word that, but you get the point — if it’s worth anything, you need to work for it.
Also, choose an MLM that has a market ability in your area with your friends and neighbors, then make sure you have the ability to put time into it and your friends also put that time into it. If everyone works together for the same result, you can all achieve a nice monthly income, but you won’t just “stop working”. It’s just another side project, or, full-time job… The bad rep comes from bad people making bad decisions.
–Will
I have to say that I used to see eye-to-eye with Ryan and his blog. I had family members that would join every single MLM and try and recruit me and it bugged the heck out of me. Then I looked at their lives and realized the problem wasn’t with what they were doing, it was how they were doing it. They didn’t stay in any one of those businesses long enough to be successful.
They would jump from ship to ship trying to find the next hot thing and be in a MLM where they were at the ‘top.’
Then one of my buddies at work showed me the Teambuilder’s plan. I actually asked him to come show me what he was doing because he was so happy all of the time and I was curious as to why. After he showed me the Teambuilder strategy powered by Quixtar, I was still way skeptical. That was my paradigm, everyone I saw doing those things never really succeeded. Then I met Lennon Ledbetter a few weeks later and I knew that he could help me. Then I watched my buddy go from full-time, to part-time and he is months away from being job optional. You see, I do believe it is wrong to get something for nothing. Teambuilders doesn’t preach that, you have to work your butt off and remain persistent (8-20 hrs a week, so it is like a part-time job). On top of your regular job, if you have one.
You have to change the way you think in order to achieve the results that are totally possible in our compensation plan. Lennon and his family have help hundreds become financially free, no job, including a few deaf couples making over 6 figures a year (didn’t happen overnight) and they are helping a blind couple as we speak. Deaf and Blind!!! I could show you a book of hundreds of others that have had great success. So when you say that Teambuilders and Lennon don’t contribute to society I guess you lost me there. True wealth is not measured by one man’s wealth alone, but it is measured by how many people he has helped achieve wealth for themselves. Not a hand-out, but a hand-up.
It does require an open mind and to let go of false pretenses about MLMs. Fact is that Alticor, with sister company amway and quixtar has produced more millionaires than any other MLM in history and will continue to do so.
Teambuilders is the education system that teaches IBOs how to effectively build their business. Lennon has been in the top 20 fastest growing IBOs for 20 years and in the past 3 years has been the fastest growing in all of Alticor. For the record, he only started in the 1980s, so there were thousands of others that had a 30 year head start and he is smokin’ all of them. It has absolutely nothing to do with when ‘you got in’ but how hard you work when you do.
What you have to pay for the Teambuilders system? Yes..is it worth it> Yes! What you have to pay for school books and tuition to go to school for four years or more? How much money are you making during that time? I am not knocking a college degree, I went that route and it was great. I paid the price and it got me where I am. I am thankful for that. I am equally thankful for the education found in the Leadership developement system of Teambuilders.
C’mon guys be open-minded and realize that there is opposition in all things. And if you look at the life of Lennon and the results that he has created for so many people it would astound you. Still don’t believe me, huh. That’s ok. We aren’t looking for everyone.
Let me ask you these questions though. How many people are going to get a gym membership this new year and sign a contact for a year or two? Tons. How many will actually lose weight and stay consistent? Very few. There are so many quitters out there, so just because it hasn’t worked for them, doesn’t mean the gym doesn’t work.
If this world allowed only narrow-minded thinkers then the world would still be flat, man would’ve never made it to the moon, and this great country would not exist, there would be no Internet, TV, electricity,etc. Think outside the box, regardless of what others think.
I cannot hate too much on the nay-sayers, because I used to be the king of them. I will say that you must look at the life they live before you take the advice they give. So follow those who live the way you want to live. Don’t be afraid to be different, my life has changed so much because of Teambuilders and we are on track to hit our goals within a couple of years. Pretty amazing, but not easy.
Ryan I am not trying to convince you of anything, but realize that many people do make it, if fact anyone can make it if they don’t give up. I could go on and on. I decided long ago when I was young that I was the Captain of my own ship and regardless of what others do or say I will pursue the course that I have set my sights on. I have never missed..I repeat I have never missed. I haven’t always hit at the exact time that I wanted to, however as I stayed true to my goal I have always found the promised goal. People will quit, but leaders stay the course.
‘Whatever the mind can see and believe, it can achieve.’ Napoleon Hill, think and grow rich.
-Mark
PS-Couple of recommended books to read, Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill, it is a classic and The Magic of Thinking Big.
Mark,
Thanks for the comments. I’m glad you spent time to rationally and calmly state your position. That alone, I think, does as much to buttress your ideas as anything else. Indeed, I was tiring of getting email from dimwitted MLMers ranting and raving about how all my MLM opinions streamed from my intense jealousy of Mr Ledbetter. Right…
Ryan
I hate to always be the skeptic, but my first impression was Mark’s reply was a canned response with “Ryan” inserted at key points. How many of you clicked on his link which conveniently now will google (and, oddly, requires a login to view…)?
I don’t think he responded to any of your points; he just preached the “feel good” philosophy that you can read in droves online. In response to what Ryan actually did write, I think you mentioned a very key point. What do you do when you run out of people downline? Is it inherently evil that Herbalife outgrew its American line and only became a viable moneymaker again when people took it to AFRICA? (Cockeyed has an excellent resource about Herbalife). Good products sell themselves; bad MLM products aren’t sold, they’re bought by downline people who want to be upline.
Treu,
I clicked on the link too and was annoyed there was only a login screen (available in two languages!)
lame!
Ryan
Treu and Ryan,
If you were truly looking, then I would give you the access codes, but we aren’t looking for critics.
If you are skeptical (which is ok) and truly want more information, email me at nikmark@myibocs.com and I will send you the access code.
If you are a critic, then don’t bother.
Mark
That’s a nice gesture. I wasn’t expecting that.
[...] I just got back from Los Angeles,CA and I know what you’re saying, “What the heck do the friggin’ Los Angeleans want? Did they run out of eccentric bloggers and need to import some more?” Actually, I was there because my technological expertise was needed; I’m important like that. I’m flew into LAX (can we say “lax” or must we always spell it out “ell-aye-ex?”), on Delta, riding peasant class, ’cause that’s how I roll. I like to be with my people. Also, I’m very poor (probably because I haven’t made my millions with a Satan-run MLM like Teambuilders yet.) Peasant class puts in you very close quarters with people you wouldn’t ordinarily be that close too. I’m a thin guy and I barely fit into the seats. I don’t know how the larger among us manage to squeeze into the seats. [...]
I read a book a while back (sorry can’t remember the name) about a French guy who basically converted the French monetary system into a huge pyramid scheme like the “turn $300 into $600″ scam.
Once people saw that others were making money, everyone signed up, converted all their cash into notes, and a lot of people got rich. Once there were no more people to sign up, they wanted his head.
Huzah!
This conversation is great! Here’s the scary thing to me. Many people are beginning to associate MLM with Mormons. That is VERY BAD!! The last thing I want is for a person’s only impression with a Mormon to be in a public restroom while they are using the urinal and the guy next to him slips a TEAM BUILDERS card over the divider.
Do you all know about the new MLM Comedy that is coming out? I tell all my friends about it and you all should to! It’s very funny!
It’s called Believe The Movie
http://www.believethemovie.com
Watch the Mark Fuller instructional videos!!!
I think everyone’s comments have missed the point. Network Marketing is a legitimate business structure. Many MLM companies mirror corporate ventures. Real estate is sale & commission business. Cellular stores work on sales & commission ie: “no sales no pay.” But the dream of Network Marketers is to create residual income that comes continually. Quixtar, Herbalife, Primerica and many other companies dont do that because each month, something needs to be sold to create commision. There are however, companies like 5Linx where you can “sell” something once and get paid off of it monthly, sort of like a royalty. That income is the kind of income billionaires and monopolies get. Money that comes from monthly BILLS not SALES. I have a friend who’s in 5Linx. You can catch up with him @ myspace.com/1sTrillionaire
LOL!!! Funny stuff Ryan…I sure hope you men don’t do MLM recruiting in the bathroom. Thank heavens we women use stalls and you can’t see the person next to you.
that looks like a pretty funny movie http://www.believethemovie.com
can’t wait for it to come out
[...] 1. Savings account [...]
The one thing you are wrong about with Quixtar, is that it does NOT require new recruits to make money. And it does not have products that ONLY recruits/members want to buy. I personally have a downline that retired from teaching because she sold some great products to a huge corporation for them to motivate their employees. Many others have gotten substantial income from marketing to businesses, for office supplies, sports nutrition products, etc. The products Quixtar sells are consumables, meaning they are products people use anyway, and that they consume (use up) and have to keep buying. People will always need/want make-up, skin care, gifts for friends/family, etc.
A true MLM has a legitimate product, that is bought repeatedly and consumed over and over. A pyramid has no such product to keep the money coming in, and collapses once no more new recruits come in. There is a difference between the two. Also, Quixtar is a member of the Better Business Bureau (see http://www.westernmichigan.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=11002927).
Lennon Ledbetter has helped many, many people change their lives. I know of several mothers that have been able to come home from their jobs and take their children out of daycare because of TeamBuilders and Quixtar.
Hi Kat! Thanks for taking time to write. Though I don’t doubt a few under Quixtar have managed to fare well (those with large downlines), it is the masses, many of whom have written to me expressing their suffering, which causes concern.
As for the quality of Quixtar products, I find them about on par with Walmart, only more expensive. Would you disagree?
[...] No, Utah did not recently “ban keyword advertising” as Slashdot reported. They did, however, place some restrictions on it with the newly signed Trademark Protection Act. In short, companies in Utah can no longer legally buy keyword advertising on a competitor’s trademarked names. Satan’s spawn, Noni, cannot, for example, take out ads on the Devil’s vomitus, Xango. That is seen as “hijacking a trademark.” [...]
You really have no idea what you are talking about. My husband and I have been part of quixtar for 2 1/2 years now. we are making enough money for me to be a stay at home mom. I’m not part of Teambuilders but if they are partnered with quixtar then they are the most honest business people out there. Grow up and find something worth while to complain about.
Dear i-Team member, Even though your comment was mean-spirited, I will not respond in kind. Instead, let’s talk about your logic:
Given: “My husband and I have been part of quixtar for 2 1/2 years now. we are making enough money for me to be a stay at home mom.” (i.e. Quixtar makes *us* money)
Given: [you (that is, me) said bad things about Quixtar]
Conclusion: “You really have no idea what you are talking about.”
I think your syllogism is flawed for a number of reasons. I never said Quixtar doesn’t make *anyone* any money. I said that Quixtar doesn’t make the average person any money. I also said that Quixtar was immoral, but being immoral and making money are completely different things, wouldn’t you agree?
But wait! you used a superlative! You claimed that if a business is partnered with Quixtar it must be the MOST HONEST business people out there. That’s quite the statement, particularly given the thousands of people who rightly spew invective at Quixtar. Got any backing for that assertion?
Oh, and I am grown up.
Next on my complaint list: illogical housewives.
I debated if I should post a response. But seeing that I was involved with TeamBuilders and that I was one of the Team members that got “Mark” registered into the business (Mark commented up top of this thread), I thought I would share my thoughts.
I was introduced to Teambuilders a couple years ago. At the time the business model made sense. Residual income does make sense and is a great way to become “Financially Free”. I own 6 homes, 5 rentals and of course my personal residence. I took this all on in hopes of bringing home my wife who has been working in the medical industry for the past 15 years. Last year we managed to bring her home more and cut her time down to working 2 days a week to be with the kids! (YEAH!!!) But there was a price to pay and some minor bumps along the way before we made that happen.
So when my brother in law came by and showed the business plan for Teambuilders/Quixtar I thought, “This makes sense! I have a plan and this can get me there!”. I attended monthly functions, weekly master mind meetings, I went out and helped show the plan to others. I was also on “System” and bought into the educational system that offers CDs and a book of the month.
After 1 year here is where I fell out….
After spending around $200 a month (two $40 monthly Business Dev. Seminar tickets, $100 for CDs, and Books, $6 a week to go to weekly meetings) and not including any products that I bought through the Quixtar site, I discovered a few things that really bothered me.
1. The secrecy and cover-up that is always involved with the Business Dev. Seminar tickets. My upline was getting the money for the tickets that I purchased. Some may not think this is a big deal but I was always under the impression that the money for these tickets went to help pay for a building, or to pay for the business expense of flying in someone to speak etc etc. Rather I found out that my upline platinum is peddling tickets for their own personal benefit. And it is just another BONUS way to make more money in the business.
2. Being on System. I was tired of the same thing. Motivational CDs are good but putting a new twist on the same message day in and day out gets old. I was frustrated with the same canned response and I also found out that selling systems was one of the biggest money makers in the business!! It is not so much the product downline that is making the money as is the EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM! So my 200+ hard earned cash was going in to the pockets of my upline and in return I was getting the “You Can do it! You are a champion, You are a winner Jason”, responses!
I can go on with my concerns. But what kills me is the 2 – 5 year plan. No offense fellas but I see you working it and working it hard and I use to say that my Mentor was retiring “such and such day” But each year that passes I hear the same thing. I respect these guys for their passion, the time they dedicate to such a business, and the time they spend away from their families. It truly is amazing and takes some faith. There are many who have made it. So I will not say that it doesnt work. Right now it just doesnt work for me or my family. I purchase through quixtar because I like a few products, I can get some money back like a rebate and I appreciate the concept of residual income. What I dont appreciate is someone not being up front with me, and the “You are a champion” bugz me to no end
Nah I didn’t quit on my family and I dont buy into that crap Fotu’ will say about quitting on your kids. Thats a bunch of shiznit! My kids deserve the best and get it and if you try and tell me otherwise I will stand toe ta toe with you!
I have a couple of mentors. One thing that stands out and sets them apart from those that I thought I had in TeamBuilders, is that the guys I look up to do not charge me a thing, are genuine and are not moving on to the next best thing or person in the business. They are real whether we believe in the same thing or not. They are truly there for me anytime! I dont have to sell some couple on a plan to hang out with them for a night.
I am free! I am happy with who I am, what I represent, and who I work for….MY KIDZ! They rock, I love spending time with them and I spend a lot of time with them!!! Something that a lot of guys in the MLM business preach but never end up doing because they continue to chase a dream that they can’t obtain for themselves or their family. I am not a dream stealer so go for it, do what you believe! For me its spending time with my fam, flyfishing an endless stream and being me and not trying to pretend to be anything different. Happiness and freedom are different for everyone I am still chasing mine….you know what it is…”rollin over in the morning, looking at my beautiful wife and asking her what she wants to do for the day”! Keep doing what you believe in and I make your dreams become a reality and am striving to do the same.
JayMorr
Well written and well reasoned. Thanks for your comments, JayMorr
Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about. You are entitled to your opinion but my question to you is.. is your opinion based on any facts at all. You can say all you want about MLM’s and how making money with MLM’s is bad, ok thats your opinion. But to say the products are in your words: (exotic, foul tasting beverages, cheap lotions, Brazilian dark chocolate, etc.) Have you ever tasted any of these products that you are talking bad about???? The answer is pretty clear, because the products are great tasting and high quality, and guess what my friends and family are not my downline, unless they want to become my downline and my customers can just be my customers they don’t have to be my downline. The products sell themselves no high pressure, or guilt needed. I love the products and the whole Teambuilder concept is great. Its is about quality of life and not spending your entire life working and barely scrapping by only to retire just before you die living on 1/3 the income you are accustomed to, but if thats the kind of life you want you are welcome to it as for me I will stive for a better one.
Hi Mel,
Welcome to the site. I can sense a bit of condescension, irritation and anger in your tone. That’s too bad. I bet you are sick of people simply parroting bad things about MLMs without ever having firsthand knowledge.
Your assumption that I am among such people, however, is unfounded. I have tried many of the products from Teambuilders/Quixtar/Amway and I do not agree that they are of particularly high quality. To the contrary, I found most of them to be something less than generic brand quality. I’ve also had Noni and Xango beverages. I’ve also had several Xocai (Brazilian chocolate) bars. I wasn’t overly impressed with any of those products. Surely I have a right to my opinion?
On to the latter half of your comment. I take issue with a couple of your statements:
1- “The products sell themselves no high pressure, or guilt needed.”
Mel, that is a outright lie, and you know it. If the products sold themselves, you wouldn’t need the weekly brainwashing sessions, the manipulative CDs or the group intimidation. All I’m asking here is honesty.
2- “[the whole Teambuilder concept] is about quality of life and not spending your entire life working and barely scrapping by only to retire just before you die living on 1/3 the income you are accustomed to…”
I can see they’ve got you hook, line and sinker with the “I deserve more” garbage. Mel, I shouldn’t be the one to tell you that no one is entitled to anything. You have to work for what you get. If you consider for a moment the Teambuilder philosophy, you should understand that it simply doesn’t work on a large scale. In fact, Teambuilders only makes for a system of winners and losers; the same type system you’re fighting against. You’ve only managed to stir up the pot slightly. They haven’t changed anything.
You talk about MLM’s as being evil or
stupid or ripoffs. The fact is that thay
are investments that people make to make
money. the money thay make is based on
many things but there is always
money to be made. The crys for help come
only when they have to work for what thay get. or if thay have to work more hours
or help others to build their part of the
bussiness or if thay do not understand that
if you do not work hard you will not see
the big bucks that are out there to be made
also in our computer based world don’t cry
about selling to family when our city,state,
country,is at our finger tips. but if a few
bucks or some time is to mutch to risk
then put your money in a savings account
or in a can in the back yard.
or in the stock market, or in real estate… barring those crazy ideas, you could even start your own legitimate business…
This just in:
Two Questions after reading the below,
1. Is Quixtar changing name back to Amway?
2. Isn’t “Team Stacking” a huge part of what “Team Builders” is currently promoting? I am not sure if I read it right or if it is allowed or not but I would like someone to give me some more details on this because I am genuinely confused.
***********
Quixtar Diamonds Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady terminated from Quixtar PDF Print E-mail
Written by IBOFightBack
Thursday, 09 August 2007
Earlier today I received an anonymous email informing me that Quixtar had terminated the IBOships of IBOAI board members Executive Diamond Orrin Woodward (pictured right) and Founders’ Diamond Chris Brady (below right) of TEAM, otherwise known as Team of Destiny. Furthermore, Diamond Randy Haugen had also resigned and others were likely to follow.
Orrin WoodwardShortly after a brief posting about the email, Quixtar PR contacted me enquiring about the source, I told them what I said above. I’ve since asked for confirmation but received no reply. Ty Tribble of MLMBlog tells me his search counter is going crazy with searches for “Orrin Woodward leaving Quixtar”, so i’m fairly confident my anonymous correspondent is correct.
The correspondent stated that Woodward, Brady and others had been breaking a number of Quixtar rules and had refused to change their practices. On the TTAA forums a poster claims that Orin Woodward and Chris Brady have been actively stating that if the Quixtar to Amway name change goes ahead, they will leave Quixtar. Posters on QuixtarBlog have been saying they’ve been told the same thing since the name change was announced.
Other posts have been saying things similar to the following for some time, well before the name change was announced -
“when I was shown the TEAM plan I was told they were just using Quixtar for now, and may switch suppliers at any time” ( source)
Well, my source tells me that Woodward and Brady did indeed want to start their own MLM, and had threatened Quixtar with an anti-Quixtar PR war unless they waived the anti-compete rule in the Quixtar IBO contract and allowed them to leave with their organization. Quixtar refused. Given the earlier reports of rule breaking, it is obvious that Quixtar had little choice to terminate them.
Woodward was reportedly the instigator of the reintroduction of a “stacking” strategy where IBOs focus on building one leg at a time (depth) rather than focus on building width first. This involved sponsoring people downline of each other. From what I understand, the corporation had tacitly approved the strategy, as long as the IBOs involved met and agreed. Internet reports have said that some teams were however ignoring this requirement, and furthermore taking the “one leg” strategy to extremes – building as many as 50 or more levels deep before starting a second leg. This dramatically decreases bonuses (and profitability) for new IBOs. Furthermore, there were reports the strategy had resulted in a lot of new applications, but little new volume. Another source told me last week that Quixtar had decided to implement, starting September 1st, a policy of randomly ringing new IBOs and asking if they new who their sponsor was. If they could not answer and this occured repeatedly, the IBOs responsible would be terminated. If all of this is true, the method used by Orrin Woodward’s TEAM would obviously be threatened.
The question now is – who will leave with them? Randy Haugen, well known for his role in the P&G Satanism rumor has reportedly already resigned. A number of other organizations have been working with TEAM over the past few year, including quite a few lead by members of the IBOAI, including Billy Florence of DCI International. Other Diamonds that have reportedly been associated with TEAM include Fred and Linda Harteis, Tim and Amy Marks, Doug and Sheri Stroh, Bill and Jackie Lewis, Bobby Howard, George and Jill Guzzardo and Larry and Marsie Vanbuskirk. No word yet on who, if any, will follow Woodward, Haugen, and Brady.
Not surprisingly, lawsuits have begun to fly. It will be interesting to see if the reported “PR war” threat occurs. Orrin Woodward and his team have a huge number of different blogs and websites on the Internet – the real origin of the so-called “Google Bombing” attempt blamed on Quixtar.
We certainly live in interesting times. Personally I must say I’m encouraged by the strength of decision making that has come out of Ada, Michigan of late. I don’t agree with all they are doing (in particular I think they’re being a little overzealous on BSM in some markets) but it’s great to see they are trying to take control of the business and the business reputation. That can only help in the future.
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UPDATE: An IBO just passed on this information -
I just had a TEAM IBO asking me off the boards, they don’t know about this board yet, if I knew if TEAM was breaking up. I just asked why. They wrote that something is definitely going on because several meetings have been cancelled and they are too new but they saw some literature with a different company name other than Quixtar at their upline’s house.
So it would appear that TEAM is already well down the path to beginning their new venture. The whole situation is very reminicient of the Team In Focus debacle, where a number of diamonds, including Bo Short and Andy Andrews, had their IBOships terminated or elected to resign. Short and others launched their own, short-lived, competitor MLM called Passport and are reportedly now working with another MLM – Univera Life Sciences. …
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Quixtar TEAM Amway Orrin Woodward Chris Brady Randy Haugen IBOAI Alticor
I understand what you are saying. Alot of MLM’s do promise wealth. I am a member of Teambuilders and I have met Lennon Ledbetter. No one is promised instant wealth. We are told that we get out of it what we put into it. We are never told or promised we will never work again. Lots of our leaders continue to work even after they no longer have to because they love their jobs. Lennon Ledbetter works very hard in this business. Anyone that knows him could contest to this. He could go the rest of his life and never lift a finger or sell another product and he is financially set for life, but he continues to roll up his sleaves and help the newest member of his team. As for the products they are wonderful!!!! High quality and very tasty. You obviously have never tried them or you wouldn’t have said what you did about the products, and NO I am not brain washed, I truly like the taste of our energy drinks (which are sugar free and in a variety of flavors) and I love the quailty of our skin care products. I think before you write such negative things, you should do your research first. Lennon Ledbetter is a great man and gives to charities so yes he does give back to society. You obviously don’t know him at all nor did you research him before you wrote such negative things.
Melissa,
Kindly don’t tell me what I’ve “obviously” done or not done. As a matter of fact, I’ve been to teambuilders meetings. yes, I’ve met with the teambuilders people. yes, i’ve tried the products.
Still, I don’t like teambuilders and I don’t like the products and I don’t like mr. ledbetter.
Since you’ve accused me of things, here’s some for you: you’re confusing the definition of good and great and you’re making the classical ancient Egyptian assumption that doing good things after having done bad things will somehow outweigh the bad and somehow make you moral. that just ain’t so.
still, I appreciate your thoughts and I’m glad you didn’t say that hate ledbetter because I jealous of him. that was nice of you.
Ryan,
I wonder, “doing good things after having done bad things will somehow outweigh the bad and somehow make you moral. that just ain’t so.” What has Lennon supposedly done morally wrong that needs to be made up for?
(I’m not interested in rumors and I assume no one else is either, besides I believe spreading rumors is wrong so support your implied accusations with PROVEN FACTS!)
You seem irratated about people saying you are jealous, but I haven’t seen you give any real reasons why you dislike him- please stop the accusations by supporting your distain?(again with proven facts)
What is your idea of a “legitimate business?” And what makes networking businesses illegitimate (I assume that is what you are implying)?
I am fighting the urge to judge you for creating a site focussed on negativity.
I love Lennon as if he were my brother or dad. I am as close to him as anyone I know including the previously mentioned Fotu and yes I have seen him make mistakes. But I have never seen him do anything dishonest. I respect Lennon more that any other man that I have met since I met him over 9 years ago. He and my dad are my heros.
What kind of man builds a business just for the money and over 20 years and millions of dollars later still opens up his life for a punk kid like myself who could offer him nothing. What could I possibly have that he would want from me? The answer that I found to that question is another friend! Which he has found. He changed my life forever and has taught me to do the same for my partners. I will always be grateful to him for teaching me.
You can only teach the teachable. Anyone can be successful in networking, esspecially in teambuilders. People fail in MLMs and in “legitimate businesses” only because they are not willing change themselves. People will make justifications for why they didn’t make it, but I honestly believe that they were not willing to make the sacrifices to make it happen. It is work and I respect anyone who learns to work hard enough to be successful in networking. In general, people don’t get frustrated with MLM businesses, they just get embarraced because they were too lazy to just get out there and help people like me who want to be helped!
Hi Teambuider,
I actually found your comment to be well thought out and rational. Thank you. As for my site, I have nearly 500 blog postings, only two of three of which might be misconstrued as overtly negative.
it’s ironic that you ask for proven facts given your association with network marketing. Here’s a fact for you: Quixtar and the Teambuilder’s meetings I’ve attended claim that anyone can attain financial freedom after only working part-time for a few years. So, how well are Quixtar IBO’s actually doing? Well according to http://www.quixtar.com/Documents/IWOV/VIS/010-en/PDF/SA-4400.pdf, not so well. “the average monthly gross income for an “active” IBO is $115 (or $1,380 annually). Just a reminder, gross income means before expenses such as travel, lodging, training, motivational materials, etc. Quixtar even admits that “there may be significant business expenses, mostly discretionary, that may be greater in relation to income in the first years of operation.” How many years? Quixtar doesn’t specify. Could be two or twenty for all we know.
“But wait,” you say. “Averages can be easily skewed by extremely high or low numbers. Many IBOs sign up and then sit on their ass which inevitably brings down the average income.”
Well, that’s correct. Averages can be distorted by extremely high or low numbers but maybe that’s why Quixtar only counted “ACTIVE” IBOs. In fact, Quixtar did not include one third of all its registered IBOs when determining average income. That statistic alone is incredible but let’s put it in perspective. The Grand Rapids Press reports that there are 340,000 registered IBOs. According to Quixtar, approximately 113,000 of them are not “active” and weren’t included in the income average calculation. Would you like to reconsider that “distorted average” theory?” (thx http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2004/07/quixtar_average_income.php)
“Quixtar claims on its quixtarfacts.com site that it has paid out $1 billion in bonuses since its launch in September, 1999. That’s roughly $200 million per year (dividing $1 billion by 5 years) and is a very impressive figure. However, let’s take a closer look at this figure.
According to the U.S. Census, the average annual household income in the U.S. is $47,101. That’s not a lot of money but a significant number of Americans are able to live comfortably on that amount. Now let’s just say that the goal of a Quixtar IBO is to match the U.S. average of $47,101. How many IBOs will be able to earn that much from Quixtar before the $200 million is gone? Well, my math (and check it yourself) reveals that only 4,255 IBOs (in this hypothetical example) earned the U.S. average income. That number is smaller than the number of people at the motivational rally I went to in Forth Worth.
Now, increase that total to $75,000 per year and you’re left with only 2,667 IBOs with “financial freedom.” Or maybe I don’t understand what it means to be “financially free?” All I know is that when I start really looking at Quixtar’s own numbers, I’m left with more questions than answers.”
you can read the rest here: http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2004/07/quixtar_average_income.php
It’s true, I do not think that network marketing is a legitimate business. it makes promises that are not kept. a few people get wealthy while the vast majority do not.
thanks for your comments!
I have been online attempting to research a possible tie/link between Univera and The Church of LDS. What do you know?
There is no tie. An LDS member starts a business, but that does not mean the church is involved, condones, or is affiliated with that business. It is just unfortunate that my fellow LDS members allow themselves to be duped into this garbage or, worse, allow themselves to start such garbage. MLM’s are a detriment to society. Money is the end game, not life, learning, family, or friends. They are missing out on what is truly important.
Nice post! Here’s one for ya… In a hierarchical organization, the higher the level, the greater the confusion.